From: Soubhi Nayal [nayalsoubhi@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 5:17 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans I do agree with Dr. Carol Barton . She is absolutely right . Regards. Dr. S. Nayal. >From: "Dr. Carol Barton" >Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu >To: >Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans >Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:13:44 -0500 > >I would concur . . . based on the fact that the student at Porter's Gate, >Magdalen, asked me in dead earnest if John Milton (whose name he clearly >did >not recognize) was an American. (Magdalen is across the Cam from Christ's). > >Best, > >Carol Barton > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Colin Burrow" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 5:27 AM >Subject: RE: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > > > Just to illustrate the point: my wife was at Trinity when I was an > > undergraduate at Caius, which is literally next door. I admit to a >fairly > > monkish existence, but we never met until after she had left. Both >Colleges > > have more undergraduates now than they did in the late seventeenth >century, > > but it does illustrate the insularity of Colleges-which is rather less > > pronounced now than it was then. > > > > Colin Burrow, Fellow and Tutor, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge >CB2 > > 1TA > > tel: 01223 332483 > > web: http://www.english.cam.ac.uk > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu [mailto:owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] >On > > Behalf Of Duncan Kinder > > Sent: 20 November 2001 19:32 > > To: milton-l@richmond.edu > > Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > > > "Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > > years at Christ's. " > > > > Samuel E. Morrison, in _The Founding of Harvard College_ , states that >the > > enrollment of early 17th century Cambridge University was so large >(about > > 3000) than you cannot safely infer that - solely because two men from > > different colleges attended Cambridge at the same time - that they >therefore > > knew one another. > > > > > > Duncan C. Kinder > > duncan@neoclassicists.net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:27 AM > > Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > > > > > > > > > Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New >England > > > divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, >William > > > Chappell, > > > who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his > > > Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, > > > Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True > > > Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he > > > lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a >whole > > > ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English > > > authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea > > > in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in > > > this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > > > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with >Milton's > > > years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at > > > Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by > > > name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such > > > "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious >American > > > schools. > > > > > > > > > > > > George McLoone > > > > > > --- > > > > > > --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net > > > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From: jfleming@sfu.ca Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:02 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: your mail Parliament stopped observing the feast in 1643. This step constituted an unofficial ban. The ban was made official in January 1645 (n.s., a year before Milton's _Poems_), by the Westminster Assembly's _Directory of Public Worship_. In most years from 1643 on, Parliament published an order against the closing of shops etc. on December 25th. The issue was very controversial in England, causing riots, at least one rebellion (in Canterbury, 1647), and a vast pamphlet literature -- as well as a lot of Christmas poetry. See Ronald Hutton, _The Rise and Fall of Merry England_; Christopher Durston, "Lords of Misrule: The Puritan War on Christmas, in _History Today_ (vol. 60?); Durston's chapter "The Failure of Puritan Cultural Revolution," in his and Jacqueline Eales' _Culture of English Puritanism_ (I think it is called); and my own article "Composing 1629," forthcoming in _Milton Quarterly_. Regards, JD Fleming On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:03:38 -0500 (EST) milton-l@richmond.edu wrote: > > Perhaps worth recalling that in 1646 (I think) Parlliament abolished the > celebration of Christmas, Easter and Whitsuntide. Morton, as I recall, > published a rejoinder. Kevin Philips, in The Cousins War, tried to trace > lines from the civil wars to American revolution and even civil war, with > what success is in debate. If there are problems with the terms roundhead > and cavalier, there is also a problem with the 19th century term Anglican. > Given that "the true church" would be known by preaching of the word and > administration of sacraments, and given that many inclined toward one or > the other, however strongly or mildly, I've taken to teaching with the > terms "biblical Christian" and "liturgical Christian." > > Boyd M. Berry > English Department > Virginia Commonwealth University > P. O. Box 842005 > Richmond Va. 23284 2005 > 804 828 1331 > Fax 804 828 8684 > > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Milton-L Moderator wrote: > > > From: "Rose Williams" > > To: > > References: <20011120213640.72261.qmail@web10405.mail.yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: Puritans and Cavaliers > > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:03:53 -0000 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 > > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > > X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) > > Status: > > > > Any simple explanation of mass population movements or wars is of course > > inaccurate; I merely thought this was an interesting theory. My professor > > was refining perhaps too much on the seventeenth century distinctions; > the > eighteenth tended to mix the various immigrants more. > > In conjunction with this early seventeenth century distinction I have > been > re-reading William Bradford's "Of Plymouth Plantation, Book II," in > which he > explains in his 1622 entries about the coming of a 'new company' > of > 'adventurers' who did not want to work 'on the day called Christmas > Day' > when called out to work by the Governor, saying that it went against > their > consciences to work on Christmas Day. The Governor said he would > spare them > 'until they were better informed.' But when he came home at > noon from work > and found them engaged in ball-games and merriment, he > said that they should > keep their devotions in their houses if they did > not work. Perkins in his > footnotes says that these were Anglicans who > arrived on the Fortune and > found themselves in a Puritan society. > > In 1628 Bradford speaks of one 'Captain Wollaston, a man of pretty parts, > > who with three or four more of some eminency brought with them a great > many > servants to Massachusetts to begin a plantation. Profits not coming > up to > expectation, the Captain took a great part of the servants to > Virginia, > where he 'sold their time to other men' at good rates. A man > named Morton > 'got strong drink and made a feast' for the remaining > servants, and they > refused to be transported to Virginia. Instead Morton > became 'Lord of > Misrule' and a 'dissolute life' began -- evidently this > dissolute life > centered around a Maypole, to which Morton 'attached > sundry rhymes and > verses.' > > They changed the name of the place to MerryMount, but John Endecott > arrived > from England and cut down the maypole and stopped all the > revelry. Morton in > a huff went off to sell firearms to the > Indians.Perkins also says that these > followers of Wollaston were > Anglicans. > Note to Cynthia (I hope you can take this in the spirit that > we Texans take > all the raillery about us) > > Richard Armour says that Hester Prynne should never have been in > > Massachusetts in the first place--everyone like her had already gone to > Hell > or to Virginia. > > Rose Williams > > > > > > James Dougal Fleming Assistant Professor, English Simon Fraser University (604) 291-4713 ============================================================================ == From: Peter C. Herman [herman2@mail.sdsu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:31 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers Jameela, do you mean to say that Southern fundamentalism is dying out slowly today? Not from what I've seen and read! pch At 10:53 AM 11/27/01 -0600, you wrote: >In response to P J Stewart, Southern fundamentalism dates back to a series >of revivals 100+ years ago (I'm fuzzy on the exact details) rather than to >the 17th century. The phenomenon created a biblicist culture that is >dying out only slowly. > >Jameela Lares >Associate Professor of English >University of Southern Mississippi >Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 >+(601) 266-6214 ofc >+(601) 266-5757 fax From: Duncan Kinder [duncan@neoclassicists.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:22 PM To: Jameela Lares Cc: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Southern religion Baptists can be quite Arminian. See, eg: http://www.forerunner.com/puritan/PS.Baptized_Arminianism.html Apparently the Arminian vs. Calvinist debate is quite a topic within Baptist circles, to which I do not belong and concerning which I am not expert. Nevertheless, citing the Baptist influence within Southern life fails to refute the thesis that, culturally, New England was Calvinist while the South was Arminian. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jameela Lares" To: "Duncan Kinder" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:45 AM Subject: Southern religion > "Arminian" won't work for the South, as the largest denomination is > Baptist, which is--or at least used to be--staunchly Calvinistic. > > Jameela Lares > Associate Professor of English > University of Southern Mississippi > Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 > +(601) 266-6214 ofc > +(601) 266-5757 fax > > > > From: Harvey Wheeler [verulan@mindspring.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:52 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Cc: bberry@mail1.vcu.edu Subject: Wormuth See also Francis D. Wormuth, Origins of Modern Constitutionalism (1949) Harper - on the most thorough analysis of the theorists of the Civil Wars period and the Founding Fathers. HW From: Jameela Lares [jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:30 AM To: Duncan Kinder Cc: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Southern religion PS I forgot that the context here is colonial. My comments relate to the modern South only. It *is* true that there is a heavy Scots-Irish demographic, however. On Wed, 28 Nov 2001, Jameela Lares wrote: > "Arminian" won't work for the South, as the largest denomination is > Baptist, which is--or at least used to be--staunchly Calvinistic. > > Jameela Lares > Associate Professor of English > University of Southern Mississippi > Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 > +(601) 266-6214 ofc > +(601) 266-5757 fax > > > From: Jameela Lares [jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:45 AM To: Duncan Kinder Cc: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Southern religion "Arminian" won't work for the South, as the largest denomination is Baptist, which is--or at least used to be--staunchly Calvinistic. Jameela Lares Associate Professor of English University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 +(601) 266-6214 ofc +(601) 266-5757 fax From: Katherine Cooper [Kcooper@bju.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 11:03 AM To: < Subject: Roundheads and Cavaliers I have followed this discussion about the South and religious patterns of movement with much interest being from the South and (obviously) an American. Yes, there were a lot of Scots that immigrated to the South and their influence is still seen today. There are still close knit clans in North Carolina especially. I think that the majority of their influence is felt in the accent of the Southern people. I don't think that you can make a broad statement that the South is Arminian and the North is Calvinist. If anything there would be more Catholic influence in the North. Even now the majority of Catholic churches have traditionally been in the North. Katherine Cooper From: Rose Williams [rwill627@camalott.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 3:50 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers > In response to P J Stewart, Southern fundamentalism dates back to a series > of revivals 100+ years ago (I'm fuzzy on the exact details) rather than to > the 17th century. The phenomenon created a biblicist culture that is > dying out only slowly. Southern fundamentalism has a number of elements -- the partial destruction of the Southern "upper classes" and the general chaos after the American Civil War, influxes of immigrants from Calvinistic backgrounds, etc. It developed after 1870 partially as a result of the many changes of that period. Rose Williams From: Jim Rovira [jrovira@drew.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:29 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers Just for a little more background, American Christian fundamentalism was descendant (at least in part) from a publication called, "The Fundamentals" (sponsored by guys like R.A. Torrey) which enjoyed a fairly short run in the early 20th century. This publication was a response to modernist trends in theology and attempted to get back to "true" Christianity by identifying the "fundamental" doctrines of the faith. I think they identified seven fundamentals. I wouldn't be surprised if Christian groups created out of revivalist movements (which were probably Evangelical in nature) in the 19th century rallied around this publication. I think Evangelicalism split in the 20th century, and fundamentalism (a movement which emphasized static doctrine over personal experience) was one of its offshoots. Jim Jameela Lares wrote: > > In response to P J Stewart, Southern fundamentalism dates back to a series > of revivals 100+ years ago (I'm fuzzy on the exact details) rather than to > the 17th century. The phenomenon created a biblicist culture that is > dying out only slowly. > > Jameela Lares > Associate Professor of English > University of Southern Mississippi > Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 > +(601) 266-6214 ofc > +(601) 266-5757 fax From: Cobelli@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:23 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Southern fundamentalism Two interesting reference sources related to this subject: Bloom, Harold. The American Religion. New York: Touchstone, 1992. Fascinating but eccentric. Marty, Martin E. Pilgrims in Their Own Land. New York: Penguin, 1985. A basic reference source. Scott Grunow Academic Consultant University of Illinois at Chicago Non hai tu in Menfi, desiderii, speranze? From: Cynthia Gilliatt [gilliaca@jmu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:13 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: your mail --On Tuesday, November 27, 2001 4:03 PM -0500 Boyd M Berry wrote: > Given that "the true church" would be known by preaching of the word and > administration of sacraments, and given that many inclined toward one or > the other, however strongly or mildly, I've taken to teaching with the > terms "biblical Christian" and "liturgical Christian." But if you look at the architecture of colonial Anglican churches, with their enormous raised pulpits and tiny hard to see altars - I'm thinking of Bruton in Williamsburg and others I have visited - you have to acknowledge that during some periods the liturgical churches were very Word centered. Also, the % of biblical quotation in the Book of Common Prayer's collects, thanksgivings and assorted prayers, as well as the systematic inclusion of Scripture in public worship, argues for a more nuanced understanding. Cynthia G. ------------------- Cynthia Gilliatt From cowardice, that shuns new truth, English Dept. From indolence, content with half truths, J. M. U. From arrogance, that claims all truth, Good Lord, deliver us. Member, JMU Safe Zones English Department James Madison University MSC 1801 Harrisonburg VA 22807 From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 7:55 AM id fASCfC828202; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:41:12 -0500 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:41:12 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: argyle.richmond.edu: majordom set sender to owner-milton-l@richmond.edu using -f Message-ID: <00be01c17767$08258ce0$02010101@duncan> From: "Duncan Kinder" To: References: <1221218166.1006243565@ip17-146.pc.jmu.edu> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Nov 2001 13:16:12.0428 (UTC) FILETIME=[D9EF04C0:01C1780E] Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu <00a901c1768f$87247980$452401a3@plants.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:14:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu "how explain the fact that the centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South?" Perhaps the South might better be characterized as Arminian. Not only Archbishop Laud but John Wesley were avowed Arminians. That would encompass both High Church Anglicans and "fundamentalist" Methodists. In contrast, New Englanders would be more Calvinist/Augustinian, as, for example, Perry Miller asserts. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net From: Dr. Carol Barton [cbartonphd@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 6:14 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans I would concur . . . based on the fact that the student at Porter's Gate, Magdalen, asked me in dead earnest if John Milton (whose name he clearly did not recognize) was an American. (Magdalen is across the Cam from Christ's). Best, Carol Barton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Burrow" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 5:27 AM Subject: RE: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > Just to illustrate the point: my wife was at Trinity when I was an > undergraduate at Caius, which is literally next door. I admit to a fairly > monkish existence, but we never met until after she had left. Both Colleges > have more undergraduates now than they did in the late seventeenth century, > but it does illustrate the insularity of Colleges-which is rather less > pronounced now than it was then. > > Colin Burrow, Fellow and Tutor, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge CB2 > 1TA > tel: 01223 332483 > web: http://www.english.cam.ac.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu [mailto:owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] On > Behalf Of Duncan Kinder > Sent: 20 November 2001 19:32 > To: milton-l@richmond.edu > Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > "Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > years at Christ's. " > > Samuel E. Morrison, in _The Founding of Harvard College_ , states that the > enrollment of early 17th century Cambridge University was so large (about > 3000) than you cannot safely infer that - solely because two men from > different colleges attended Cambridge at the same time - that they therefore > knew one another. > > > Duncan C. Kinder > duncan@neoclassicists.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:27 AM > Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > > > > > Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New England > > divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, William > > Chappell, > > who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his > > Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, > > Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True > > Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he > > lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a whole > > ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English > > authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea > > in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in > > this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > > years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at > > Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by > > name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such > > "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious American > > schools. > > > > > > > > George McLoone > > > > --- > > > > --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > From: Jim Rovira [jrovira@drew.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:35 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers The great congregationalist churches are still in the north (and the descendants of quaker and other similar groups are still in Penn), but the huge influx of immigrants into NYC in the 19th and 20th cent. greatly increased the Catholic population of the area (Italians and Irish, then later Puerto Ricans). The south, well, that's another matter :). I wouldn't be surprised if it was reshaped by revivalist movements following the civil war. Jim P J Stewart wrote: > > There was a reversal at some point, else how explain the fact that the > centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South? (I think I've got it > right, though to my British ear it sounds like 'funamenalism'). > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cynthia Gilliatt" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:06 PM > Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers > > > --On Monday, November 19, 2001 9:36 AM +0000 Rose Williams > > wrote: > > > > > idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies > > > while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. > > > > A friend of mine annually reminds me that this is why the real 1st > > Thanksgiving in Virginia was a day of fasting and repentence, while the > New > > England one was a feast and mirth - each group doing for one day the > > opposite of what they idd the other 364! > > Cynthia > > > > > > > > ------------------- > > Cynthia Gilliatt From cowardice, that shuns new truth, > > English Dept. From indolence, content with half truths, > > J. M. U. From arrogance, that claims all truth, > > Good Lord, deliver us. > > Member, JMU Safe Zones > > > > > > > > > > English Department > > James Madison University > > MSC 1801 > > Harrisonburg VA 22807 > > > > > > From: Stevenson, Kay G [kays@essex.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 5:06 AM To: 'milton-l@richmond.edu' Subject: RE: Roundheads and Cavaliers Would the fundamentalism of the Bible belt be due to later waves of immigration? There are lots of Scots in the area of Alabama where I grew up. Kay Gilliland Stevenson, Department of Literature, University of Essex, Wivenhoe Park, Colchester C04 3SQ -----Original Message----- From: P J Stewart [mailto:philip.stewart@plant-sciences.oxford.ac.uk] Sent: 26 November 2001 15:32 To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers There was a reversal at some point, else how explain the fact that the centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South? (I think I've got it right, though to my British ear it sounds like 'funamenalism'). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Gilliatt" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers > --On Monday, November 19, 2001 9:36 AM +0000 Rose Williams > wrote: > > > idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies > > while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. > > A friend of mine annually reminds me that this is why the real 1st > Thanksgiving in Virginia was a day of fasting and repentence, while the New > England one was a feast and mirth - each group doing for one day the > opposite of what they idd the other 364! > Cynthia > > > > ------------------- > Cynthia Gilliatt From cowardice, that shuns new truth, > English Dept. From indolence, content with half truths, > J. M. U. From arrogance, that claims all truth, > Good Lord, deliver us. > Member, JMU Safe Zones > > > > > English Department > James Madison University > MSC 1801 > Harrisonburg VA 22807 > > > From: Boyd M Berry [bberry@mail1.vcu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 4:04 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: your mail Perhaps worth recalling that in 1646 (I think) Parlliament abolished the celebration of Christmas, Easter and Whitsuntide. Morton, as I recall, published a rejoinder. Kevin Philips, in The Cousins War, tried to trace lines from the civil wars to American revolution and even civil war, with what success is in debate. If there are problems with the terms roundhead and cavalier, there is also a problem with the 19th century term Anglican. Given that "the true church" would be known by preaching of the word and administration of sacraments, and given that many inclined toward one or the other, however strongly or mildly, I've taken to teaching with the terms "biblical Christian" and "liturgical Christian." Boyd M. Berry English Department Virginia Commonwealth University P. O. Box 842005 Richmond Va. 23284 2005 804 828 1331 Fax 804 828 8684 On Tue, 27 Nov 2001, Milton-L Moderator wrote: > From: "Rose Williams" > To: > References: <20011120213640.72261.qmail@web10405.mail.yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: Puritans and Cavaliers > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:03:53 -0000 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 > X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) > Status: > > Any simple explanation of mass population movements or wars is of course > inaccurate; I merely thought this was an interesting theory. My professor > was refining perhaps too much on the seventeenth century distinctions; the > eighteenth tended to mix the various immigrants more. > In conjunction with this early seventeenth century distinction I have been > re-reading William Bradford's "Of Plymouth Plantation, Book II," in which he > explains in his 1622 entries about the coming of a 'new company' of > 'adventurers' who did not want to work 'on the day called Christmas Day' > when called out to work by the Governor, saying that it went against their > consciences to work on Christmas Day. The Governor said he would spare them > 'until they were better informed.' But when he came home at noon from work > and found them engaged in ball-games and merriment, he said that they should > keep their devotions in their houses if they did not work. Perkins in his > footnotes says that these were Anglicans who arrived on the Fortune and > found themselves in a Puritan society. > In 1628 Bradford speaks of one 'Captain Wollaston, a man of pretty parts, > who with three or four more of some eminency brought with them a great many > servants to Massachusetts to begin a plantation. Profits not coming up to > expectation, the Captain took a great part of the servants to Virginia, > where he 'sold their time to other men' at good rates. A man named Morton > 'got strong drink and made a feast' for the remaining servants, and they > refused to be transported to Virginia. Instead Morton became 'Lord of > Misrule' and a 'dissolute life' began -- evidently this dissolute life > centered around a Maypole, to which Morton 'attached sundry rhymes and > verses.' > They changed the name of the place to MerryMount, but John Endecott arrived > from England and cut down the maypole and stopped all the revelry. Morton in > a huff went off to sell firearms to the Indians.Perkins also says that these > followers of Wollaston were Anglicans. > Note to Cynthia (I hope you can take this in the spirit that we Texans take > all the raillery about us) > Richard Armour says that Hester Prynne should never have been in > Massachusetts in the first place--everyone like her had already gone to Hell > or to Virginia. > Rose Williams > > > From: Duncan Kinder [duncan@neoclassicists.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:41 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu <00a901c1768f$87247980$452401a3@plants.ox.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:14:51 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu "how explain the fact that the centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South?" Perhaps the South might better be characterized as Arminian. Not only Archbishop Laud but John Wesley were avowed Arminians. That would encompass both High Church Anglicans and "fundamentalist" Methodists. In contrast, New Englanders would be more Calvinist/Augustinian, as, for example, Perry Miller asserts. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net From: Duncan Kinder [duncan@neoclassicists.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:48 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans Of course I cannot remember the precise page where Morrison makes the point that mere simultaneous physical presence in 17th Century Cambridge alone does not support the conclusion that two individuals who attended different colleges therefore knew one another. Morrison, however, is discussing whether John Harvard (Emmanuel) and John Milton (Christ's) may have known one another. Morrison states that the happenstance that both were at Cambridge at the same time alone does not permit us to infer that they knew one another. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Colin Burrow" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 2:27 AM Subject: RE: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > Just to illustrate the point: my wife was at Trinity when I was an > undergraduate at Caius, which is literally next door. I admit to a fairly > monkish existence, but we never met until after she had left. Both Colleges > have more undergraduates now than they did in the late seventeenth century, > but it does illustrate the insularity of Colleges-which is rather less > pronounced now than it was then. > > Colin Burrow, Fellow and Tutor, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge CB2 > 1TA > tel: 01223 332483 > web: http://www.english.cam.ac.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu [mailto:owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] On > Behalf Of Duncan Kinder > Sent: 20 November 2001 19:32 > To: milton-l@richmond.edu > Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > "Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > years at Christ's. " > > Samuel E. Morrison, in _The Founding of Harvard College_ , states that the > enrollment of early 17th century Cambridge University was so large (about > 3000) than you cannot safely infer that - solely because two men from > different colleges attended Cambridge at the same time - that they therefore > knew one another. > > > Duncan C. Kinder > duncan@neoclassicists.net > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:27 AM > Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > > > > > Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New England > > divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, William > > Chappell, > > who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his > > Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, > > Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True > > Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he > > lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a whole > > ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English > > authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea > > in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in > > this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > > years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at > > Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by > > name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such > > "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious American > > schools. > > > > > > > > George McLoone > > > > --- > > > > --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net > > > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > > > > > > > From: Jameela Lares [jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:54 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers In response to P J Stewart, Southern fundamentalism dates back to a series of revivals 100+ years ago (I'm fuzzy on the exact details) rather than to the 17th century. The phenomenon created a biblicist culture that is dying out only slowly. Jameela Lares Associate Professor of English University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 +(601) 266-6214 ofc +(601) 266-5757 fax From: Carrol Cox [cbcox@ilstu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 8:27 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers <00a901c1768f$87247980$452401a3@plants.ox.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu P J Stewart wrote: > > There was a reversal at some point, else how explain the fact that the > centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South? (I think I've got it > right, though to my British ear it sounds like 'funamenalism'). > This is somewhat of a misuse (though a common misuse) of the term "fundamentalism." Fundamentalism is a _modern_ development, primarily of the 20th century, and indicates _not_ a clinging on to past "fundamentals" but a more or less newly forged and artificial set of principles and practices _alleged_ by the promoters as a "going back." It only occurs in a context of rapid social change. (Several thousand or 10s of thousands of pages could now be devoted to expanding, qualifying, revising this . . . .). Carrol From: Milton-L Moderator [owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:41 AM To: kcreamer@richmond.edu Subject: Fwd: Inquiry >X-Sender: hwilson@together.net@pop.mindspring.com (Unverified) >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 >Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:58:40 -0500 >To: owner-milton-l@facstaff.richmond.edu >From: Hugh Wilson >Subject: Inquiry >X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) > >Hi Kevin, > >I'm trying to contact John Shawcross and Bill Hunter. Do you have their >current e-mail addresses? > >Thanks, > >Hugh Wilson >hwilson@together.net >(518) 563-1891 From: Colin Burrow [cjb1002@cam.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 5:28 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: RE: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans Just to illustrate the point: my wife was at Trinity when I was an undergraduate at Caius, which is literally next door. I admit to a fairly monkish existence, but we never met until after she had left. Both Colleges have more undergraduates now than they did in the late seventeenth century, but it does illustrate the insularity of Colleges-which is rather less pronounced now than it was then. Colin Burrow, Fellow and Tutor, Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge CB2 1TA tel: 01223 332483 web: http://www.english.cam.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu [mailto:owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] On Behalf Of Duncan Kinder Sent: 20 November 2001 19:32 To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans "Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's years at Christ's. " Samuel E. Morrison, in _The Founding of Harvard College_ , states that the enrollment of early 17th century Cambridge University was so large (about 3000) than you cannot safely infer that - solely because two men from different colleges attended Cambridge at the same time - that they therefore knew one another. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New England > divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, William > Chappell, > who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his > Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, > Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True > Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he > lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a whole > ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English > authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea > in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in > this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at > Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by > name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such > "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious American > schools. > > > > George McLoone > > --- > > --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > From: P J Stewart [philip.stewart@plant-sciences.oxford.ac.uk] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 10:32 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers There was a reversal at some point, else how explain the fact that the centre of gravity of fundamentalism is in the South? (I think I've got it right, though to my British ear it sounds like 'funamenalism'). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cynthia Gilliatt" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 1:06 PM Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers > --On Monday, November 19, 2001 9:36 AM +0000 Rose Williams > wrote: > > > idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies > > while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. > > A friend of mine annually reminds me that this is why the real 1st > Thanksgiving in Virginia was a day of fasting and repentence, while the New > England one was a feast and mirth - each group doing for one day the > opposite of what they idd the other 364! > Cynthia > > > > ------------------- > Cynthia Gilliatt From cowardice, that shuns new truth, > English Dept. From indolence, content with half truths, > J. M. U. From arrogance, that claims all truth, > Good Lord, deliver us. > Member, JMU Safe Zones > > > > > English Department > James Madison University > MSC 1801 > Harrisonburg VA 22807 > > > From: John Leonard [jleonard@uwo.ca] Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 9:53 AM Ontario} (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers References: <4.1.20011120071412.00abfd50@mail.sdsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu There is a book called *Albion's Seed* which addresses this question. It argues that the southern states were settled by migrants from the English West Country (and later by Scots and Irish) and that New England was settled by migrants from East Anglia. This corresponds fairly closely with Cavaliers and Roundheads. John Leonard "Peter C. Herman" wrote: > > That's interesting, because this statement contradicts or nuances some > of the research I've been doing for an essay on Aphra Behn's last > play, The WIdow Ranter: Or, Bacon's Rebellion. According to what I've > read, a significant number of Virginia's inhabitants were > ex-Cromwellians. In addition, Bacon's Rebellion was itself interpreted > at the time as a last gasp of the English Revolution, and Bacon was > called an "Oliverian" to his face. Apparently, many of his supporters > followed him for precisely this reason. At the same, William Berkeley, > the governor against whom Bacon rebelled, was an old Cavalier who > earned his stripes fighting for Charles I. He disgraced himself, > though, by his overly harsh treatment of the rebels. According to one > of the contemporary narratives, Charles II said that Berkeley had > killed more people than he had after "the murder of his father." Peter > C. Herman At 09:36 AM 11/19/01 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks to Seb Perry > for the Times article. >A small note -- one of my best American > university professors made much of >the idea that Roundheads or > Puritans settled the northern American colonies >while Cavalier types > settled Virginia and the southern colonies. This fact, >he insisted, > was a major contributing factor to the attitudes which led to >the > American Civil War. >Rose Williams From: Milton-L Moderator [owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 7:45 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu From: "Rose Williams" To: References: <20011120213640.72261.qmail@web10405.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Puritans and Cavaliers Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:03:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) Status: Any simple explanation of mass population movements or wars is of course inaccurate; I merely thought this was an interesting theory. My professor was refining perhaps too much on the seventeenth century distinctions; the eighteenth tended to mix the various immigrants more. In conjunction with this early seventeenth century distinction I have been re-reading William Bradford's "Of Plymouth Plantation, Book II," in which he explains in his 1622 entries about the coming of a 'new company' of 'adventurers' who did not want to work 'on the day called Christmas Day' when called out to work by the Governor, saying that it went against their consciences to work on Christmas Day. The Governor said he would spare them 'until they were better informed.' But when he came home at noon from work and found them engaged in ball-games and merriment, he said that they should keep their devotions in their houses if they did not work. Perkins in his footnotes says that these were Anglicans who arrived on the Fortune and found themselves in a Puritan society. In 1628 Bradford speaks of one 'Captain Wollaston, a man of pretty parts, who with three or four more of some eminency brought with them a great many servants to Massachusetts to begin a plantation. Profits not coming up to expectation, the Captain took a great part of the servants to Virginia, where he 'sold their time to other men' at good rates. A man named Morton 'got strong drink and made a feast' for the remaining servants, and they refused to be transported to Virginia. Instead Morton became 'Lord of Misrule' and a 'dissolute life' began -- evidently this dissolute life centered around a Maypole, to which Morton 'attached sundry rhymes and verses.' They changed the name of the place to MerryMount, but John Endecott arrived from England and cut down the maypole and stopped all the revelry. Morton in a huff went off to sell firearms to the Indians.Perkins also says that these followers of Wollaston were Anglicans. Note to Cynthia (I hope you can take this in the spirit that we Texans take all the raillery about us) Richard Armour says that Hester Prynne should never have been in Massachusetts in the first place--everyone like her had already gone to Hell or to Virginia. Rose Williams From: Milton-L Moderator [owner-milton-l@richmond.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 7:47 AM To: kcreamer@richmond.edu Subject: Fwd: Re: Puritans and Cavaliers >From: "Rose Williams" >To: >Subject: Re: Puritans and Cavaliers >Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:03:53 -0000 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS-perl11-milter (http://amavis.org/) > >Any simple explanation of mass population movements or wars is of course >inaccurate; I merely thought this was an interesting theory. My professor >was refining perhaps too much on the seventeenth century distinctions; the >eighteenth tended to mix the various immigrants more. >In conjunction with this early seventeenth century distinction I have been >re-reading William Bradford's "Of Plymouth Plantation, Book II," in which he >explains in his 1622 entries about the coming of a 'new company' of >'adventurers' who did not want to work 'on the day called Christmas Day' >when called out to work by the Governor, saying that it went against their >consciences to work on Christmas Day. The Governor said he would spare them >'until they were better informed.' But when he came home at noon from work >and found them engaged in ball-games and merriment, he said that they should >keep their devotions in their houses if they did not work. Perkins in his >footnotes says that these were Anglicans who arrived on the Fortune and >found themselves in a Puritan society. >In 1628 Bradford speaks of one 'Captain Wollaston, a man of pretty parts, >who with three or four more of some eminency brought with them a great many >servants to Massachusetts to begin a plantation. Profits not coming up to >expectation, the Captain took a great part of the servants to Virginia, >where he 'sold their time to other men' at good rates. A man named Morton >'got strong drink and made a feast' for the remaining servants, and they >refused to be transported to Virginia. Instead Morton became 'Lord of >Misrule' and a 'dissolute life' began -- evidently this dissolute life >centered around a Maypole, to which Morton 'attached sundry rhymes and >verses.' >They changed the name of the place to MerryMount, but John Endecott arrived >from England and cut down the maypole and stopped all the revelry. Morton in >a huff went off to sell firearms to the Indians.Perkins also says that these >followers of Wollaston were Anglicans. >Note to Cynthia (I hope you can take this in the spirit that we Texans take >all the raillery about us) >Richard Armour says that Hester Prynne should never have been in >Massachusetts in the first place--everyone like her had already gone to Hell >or to Virginia. >Rose Williams From: Jordan Matthew [M.R.Jordan@livjm.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:15 AM To: 'milton-l@richmond.edu' Subject: Milton and Modernity Dear Fellow Miltonists May I advert you to the existence of the following publication: Matthew Jordan, Milton and Modernity: Politics, The Individual, and 'Paradise Lost' (London and New York: Palgrave [formerly Macmillan Press], 2001) I blush to violate decorum thus, but modest shame in me is overcome by the desire, having written the goddamn thing, that other people should have a chance to observe its many infelicities. Yours studiously Matt Jordan From: Duncan Kinder [duncan@neoclassicists.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 2:32 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans "Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's years at Christ's. " Samuel E. Morrison, in _The Founding of Harvard College_ , states that the enrollment of early 17th century Cambridge University was so large (about 3000) than you cannot safely infer that - solely because two men from different colleges attended Cambridge at the same time - that they therefore knew one another. Duncan C. Kinder duncan@neoclassicists.net ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans > > Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New England > divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, William > Chappell, > who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his > Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, > Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True > Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he > lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a whole > ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English > authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea > in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in > this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at > Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's > years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at > Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by > name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such > "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious American > schools. > > > > George McLoone > > --- > > --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net > > --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. > > > From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 7:51 AM Nov 2001 13:36:40 PST Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:36:40 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Appelbaum Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers To: milton-l@richmond.edu In-Reply-To: <002a01c170dd$b8e0ad20$6770c941@camalott.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu More recent work on the colonies suggest that this old saw of American history is rather inaccurate. One of the problems is that it is anachronistic to apply "roundhead" and "cavalier" categories to events before 1642, and inaccurate to apply them after 1660. Another is that many early settlers in Virginia and Maryland, were clearly Puritian-leaning, as were some leading members of the Virginia Company. And early settlers in such territories as New York, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, and Maryland don't really belong to either a High Church Anglican or a "Puritan" category. Reassuringly clear though the theory may be, it appears that the Civil War in America can no more be explained by a Puritan-Anglican opposition than by a simple North-South opposition. Cheers, Robert Appelbaum Rose Williams wrote: Thanks to Seb Perry for the Times article. A small note -- one of my best American university professors made much of the idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. This fact, he insisted, was a major contributing factor to the attitudes which led to the American Civil War. Rose Williams Robert Appelbaum English Department University of San Diego San Diego, CA 92110-2492 Visit my home page: www.geocities.com/r_appel/Robert.html And please forgive the commercial intrusion below: --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. From: Peter C. Herman [herman2@mail.sdsu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 10:18 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers That's interesting, because this statement contradicts or nuances some of the research I've been doing for an essay on Aphra Behn's last play, The WIdow Ranter: Or, Bacon's Rebellion. According to what I've read, a significant number of Virginia's inhabitants were ex-Cromwellians. In addition, Bacon's Rebellion was itself interpreted at the time as a last gasp of the English Revolution, and Bacon was called an "Oliverian" to his face. Apparently, many of his supporters followed him for precisely this reason. At the same, William Berkeley, the governor against whom Bacon rebelled, was an old Cavalier who earned his stripes fighting for Charles I. He disgraced himself, though, by his overly harsh treatment of the rebels. According to one of the contemporary narratives, Charles II said that Berkeley had killed more people than he had after "the murder of his father." Peter C. Herman At 09:36 AM 11/19/01 +0000, you wrote: >Thanks to Seb Perry for the Times article. >A small note -- one of my best American university professors made much of >the idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies >while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. This fact, >he insisted, was a major contributing factor to the attitudes which led to >the American Civil War. >Rose Williams From: Cynthia Gilliatt [gilliaca@jmu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 8:06 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu; milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Roundheads and Cavaliers --On Monday, November 19, 2001 9:36 AM +0000 Rose Williams wrote: > idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies > while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. A friend of mine annually reminds me that this is why the real 1st Thanksgiving in Virginia was a day of fasting and repentence, while the New England one was a feast and mirth - each group doing for one day the opposite of what they idd the other 364! Cynthia ------------------- Cynthia Gilliatt From cowardice, that shuns new truth, English Dept. From indolence, content with half truths, J. M. U. From arrogance, that claims all truth, Good Lord, deliver us. Member, JMU Safe Zones English Department James Madison University MSC 1801 Harrisonburg VA 22807 From: Carrol Cox [cbcox@ilstu.edu] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 8:54 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: [Fwd: SPOON-ANN: Perspectives on Evil & Human Wickedness (e-journalissue on terrorism)]] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu -------- Original Message -------- Subject: SPOON-ANN: Perspectives on Evil & Human Wickedness (e-journal issue onterro rism) Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:12:16 +0400 From: Salwa Ghaly Reply-To: Salwa Ghaly To: "'spoon-announcements@lists.village.virginia.edu'" [Spoon-Announcements is a moderated list for distributing info of wide enough interest without cross-posting. To unsub, send the message "unsubscribe spoon-announcements" to majordomo@lists.village.virginia.edu] CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness (PEHW) ISSN: 1471-5597 Volume 2. : June 2002 (themed issue: Terrorism) Submissions (along with a biographical blurb) are due on April 1, 2002 Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness publishes scholarly and creative work, personal reflections, and practitioners' accounts relating to classifying, defining, and probing different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on the genesis and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms with it. Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness does not espouse any ideological viewpoint or favor any specific theoretical framework, but interrogates a plurality of perspectives aimed at advancing research on this topic. Submissions are sought for the June 2002 volume to be devoted entirely to the theme of terrorism. The volume hopes to present a panoply of possible angles from which to engage this timely topic. A wide array of relevant theoretical, critical and professional perspectives is, therefore, encouraged. Of most interest will be contributions that add to, alter and/or deepen, our current understanding of the phenomenon of terrorism. Topics may include: Labels and Definition(s) Binary thinking and cultural stereotypes in the discourse on terrorism Manichean visions of good and evil Clash of civilizations scenarios Leitmotifs, imagery and rhetoric in the political discourse on terrorism Globalized terror Jihad, Islamic fundamentalism and culture of shame Terrorism and Late Capitalism Gendering terrorism Cyber terrorism Virtual terrorism in film Terrorism in the media Religious/philosophical/historical/legal perspectives on terrorism Socio-political analysis of root causes For further details and information regarding this issue, please visit the journal website at: http://www.wickedness.net/ej.htm or contact Dr. Rob Fisher at theodicist@wickedness.net or Dr. Salwa Ghaly at sghaly@sharjah.ac.ae =========================== From: Rose Williams [rwill627@camalott.com] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 4:37 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Roundheads and Cavaliers Thanks to Seb Perry for the Times article. A small note -- one of my best American university professors made much of the idea that Roundheads or Puritans settled the northern American colonies while Cavalier types settled Virginia and the southern colonies. This fact, he insisted, was a major contributing factor to the attitudes which led to the American Civil War. Rose Williams From: Dwight Hines [dwighthines@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:10 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Power relations in video games? , they knew about it then, Re: cfp: renaissance power play id fAJM90C12123 Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu These folks are ignoring the obvious in Renaissance power -- video games. Love, Dad > From: Justin Pepperney > Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu > Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:36:36 -0500 > To: milton-l@richmond.edu > Subject: cfp: renaissance power play > > RENAISSANCE POWER PLAY > The Uses and Abuses of Power in Early Modern Europe > > Annual Conference of the Pacific Northwest Renaissance Society > Marlborough School, Los Angeles, California > 4-6 April, 2002 > > It will come as no surprise that the current state of Renaissance studies has > emerged from a fruitful engagement with “discourses of power,” both in > terms of > the discipline’s relation to its traditional historical subject matter, as > well > as its place within a larger postmodern academic climate. Recognizing that > discussions of power relations have, by now, reached their dénouement, this > conference endeavours to assess where this dominant critical paradigm has left > us, and where we might proceed from here. This year’s theme should be > interpreted broadly, and papers are invited to consider any aspect of power > negotiations in political, social, or artistic spheres throughout the > Renaissance. We’re especially interested in studies that adopt a comparative > approach, perhaps discussing “power” in more than one national, social, or > institutional context. We hope that the dynamic created among the papers will > articulate new directions for understanding how our positioning within current > academic culture informsor betraysour analyses of early-modern power > configurations. > > > Plenary Speakers: > Richard Helgerson > Department of English, University of California-Santa Barbara > > Kenneth Bartlett > Department of History, University of Toronto > > Proposals of no more than 500 words should be sent to either of the following > conveners before 31 December, 2001. Electronic submissions are encouraged. > Please visit the conference website at > http://www.english.ohio-state.edu/people/bayer.23/pnrs.htm > > > Dr. Brent Whitted > Marlborough School > 250 South Rossmore Avenue > Los Angeles, California > 90004 > Phone: 323-935-7978 > FAX: 323-933-0542 > whittedb@marlborough.la.ca.us > > > > Mark Bayer > Department of English, Ohio State Univ. > 164 West 17th Avenue > Columbus, Ohio > 43210 > Phone: 614-292-6065 > FAX: 614-292-7816 > bayer.23@osu.edu > From: [ghmcloone@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 2:27 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Margaret Thickstun on transatlantic Puritans Margaret Thickstun's post of Feb. 27 on the significance of New England divines has put me in mind of Milton's first Cambridge tutor, William Chappell, who recommended them as reading for divinity students. In his Art of Preaching (1656), Chappell lists works by Thomas Shepard, Thomas Hooker and John Cotton under the heading, "On True Conversion." These famous New Englanders are the only authors he lists under the conversion heading, although his bibliography as a whole ("A Nomenclator of sundry Tracts, . . .) is dominated by English authors. (Both Perry Miller in The New England Mind and Daniel Shea in Spiritual Autobiography in Early America mention Chappell in this regard.) Milton could have known Thomas Shepard as well at Cambridge, whose attendance at Emmanuel partly coincided with Milton's years at Christ's. Shepard surely knew Stephen Basset, who was at Christ's with Milton, and in his autobiography cites Basset by name. The context is one of backsliding, drunkenness, and such "beastly carriage" as to rival that of the most prestigious American schools. George McLoone --- --- ghmcloone@earthlink.net --- EarthLink: It's your Internet. From: Chris Orchard [Corchard@grove.iup.edu] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:20 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Syllabus Help Peter, I talked to David Norbrook this weekend at the GEMCS conference and a new edition of his book on Renaissance verse will appear soon. Chris Orchard -----Original Message----- From: Peter C. Herman To: milton-l@richmond.edu Date: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 7:20 AM Subject: Re: Syllabus Help >Thanks, this should be very helpful. pch > >At 09:37 AM 11/2/01 -0500, you wrote: > > >Dear Professor Herman, > > > >Do you know Peter Davidson's, Poetry and Revolution: An Anthology of British > >and Irish Verse, 1625-1660 (Oxford, 1998)? > > > >Best, > > > >Kimberly S. Latta, Ph.D. > >Department of English > >University of Pittsburgh > >526 Cathedral of Learning > >Pittsburgh, PA 15206 > >Office Phone: (412) 624-6528 > >E-mail: ksl1@stargate.pitt.edu > > > > > > > From: "Peter C. Herman" > > > Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu > > > Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 07:38:53 -0800 > > > To: milton-l@richmond.edu > > > Subject: Re: Syllabus Help > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > I'm presently concocting my syllabus for my 17th. century course next > > > semester, and I was wondering if the group could suggest some examples of > > > imaginative literature, i.e., fiction, drama and/or verse, written during > > > the English Revolution that reflects the Revolution. > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > Peter C. Herman > > > > > > > >