From: Creamer, Kevin [kcreamer@richmond.edu] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 4:47 PM To: 'Milton-L@richmond.edu' Subject: FW: Latest EMLS issue [Moderator's note: I'm passing this along at the request of EMLS. - KC] Early Modern Literary Studies is pleased to announce the appearance of its September 2000 issue, which can be found at http://purl.oclc.org/emls/emlshome.html . The table of contents appears below. The journal continues to welcome articles, notes, reviews and theatre reviewers. Articles and notes should be sent to the Editor, Dr Lisa Hopkins, either by post at School of Cultural Studies, Sheffield Hallam University, Collegiate Crescent Campus, Sheffield, S10 2BP, U.K., or by electronic mail at L.M.Hopkins@shu.ac.uk; offers of book reviews to the Reviews Editor, Dr James Doelman (doelmanj@mcmaster.ca); and offers of theatre reviews to the theatre reviews editor, Dr Roberta Barker (rbarker@mta.ca). The next issue, due to be published in January 2001, will be a special issue on early modern women's writing. Articles Cheerful Girls and Willing Boys: Old and young bodies in Shakespeare's Sonnets. Ian MacInnes, Albion College. "To stand upright will ask thee skill": The Pinnacle and the Paradigm. Carol Barton, Averett College. The Healthy Body: Desire and Sustenance in John Lyly's Love's Metamorphosis. Mark Dooley, University of Teesside. Jonson's Romish Foxe: Anti-Catholic Discourse in Volpone. Alizon Brunning, University of Central Lancashire. "Subjected thus": Plague and Panopticism in Richard II. Nick Cox, Leeds Metropolitan University. Notes Revision of scene 4 of Sir Thomas More as a test of New Bibliographical principles. Gabriel Egan, De Montfort University. "Unaccommodated man" and his discontents in King Lear: Edmund the Bastard and interrogative puns. Anthony Gilbert, Lancaster University. There is also the usual complement of reviews and theatre reviews. Dr Lisa Hopkins Reader in English, Sheffield Hallam University School of Cultural Studies, Sheffield Hallam University, Collegiate Crescent Campus, Sheffield, S10 2BP, U.K. Editor, Early Modern Literary Studies: http://purl.oclc.org/emls/emlshome.html Teaching and research pages: http://www.shu.ac.uk/schools/cs/teaching/lh/index.htm From: Daniel W. Doerksen [dwd@unb.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 8:11 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve as Hero For another approach to Eve as hero in PL, I suggest you look at my "'Let There be Peace': Eve as Redemptive Peacemaker in _Paradise Lost_, Book X," _Milton Quarterly_ 31:4 (December 1997), 124-30. There I point back to Joseph Summers (1962), J.B. Broadbent (1960), and even E.M.W. Tillyard (1951) as noting the significance of Eve's important initiating step in Book X. Dan Doerksen At 11:59 AM 11/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >At 12:05 AM 11/14/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >I'm doing my senior thesis on Eve's role as the epic hero in Paradise > >Lost. While this has been a widely discussed topic, I'm still having > >trouble finding out when this frame of thought began. If anyone has a > >suggestion as to where I can find more information on this topic, I'd > >really appreciate it. > > > >Thanks, > > Hollie Albright > > Mount Union College > >Dear Ms. Albright: > >I suggest (all modesty cast aside) that you look at my esssay, "'Argument >Not Less But More Heroic': Eve as the Hero of *Paradise Lost*," in *"All In >All": Unity, Diversity, and the Miltonic Perspective*, ed. Charles W. >Durham and Kristin A Pruitt ( Selinsgrove: Susquehanna UP, 1999) I don't >claim to have originated the idea of Eve as the Hero of PL; I think major >credit goes to William Empson, though he has predecessors among the >Romantics (who tended, however, to focus on Satan rather than Eve). You >should be able to pick up some useful bibliographical pointers from that >essay, even if you don't find all of its arguments convincing or helpful. > >Good luck with your search for origins. > >John Ulreich > > Daniel W. Doerksen, Ph.D. E-mail: dwd@unb.ca Honorary Research Professor Department of English University of New Brunswick Fredericton, N.B. Canada E3B 5A3 From: Robert Whalen [rob.whalen@utoronto.ca] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:38 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve as Hero I don't know where the discussion began, but a good starting point would be Diane McColley's indispensable _Milton's Eve_ (Urbana: UIP, 1983). Hollie Albright wrote: > I'm doing my senior thesis on Eve's role as the epic hero in Paradise > Lost. While this has been a widely discussed topic, I'm still having > trouble finding out when this frame of thought began. If anyone has a > suggestion as to where I can find more information on this topic, I'd > really appreciate it. > > Thanks, > Hollie Albright > Mount Union College -- Robert Whalen Department of English University of Toronto at Mississauga 3359 Mississauga Road North Mississauga, Ontario Canada L5L 1C6 (905) 828-3753 mailto:rob.whalen@utoronto.ca Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca:8080:/~rwhalen From: John Ulreich [jcu@email.arizona.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 1:59 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve as Hero At 12:05 AM 11/14/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I'm doing my senior thesis on Eve's role as the epic hero in Paradise >Lost. While this has been a widely discussed topic, I'm still having >trouble finding out when this frame of thought began. If anyone has a >suggestion as to where I can find more information on this topic, I'd >really appreciate it. > >Thanks, > Hollie Albright > Mount Union College Dear Ms. Albright: I suggest (all modesty cast aside) that you look at my esssay, "'Argument Not Less But More Heroic': Eve as the Hero of *Paradise Lost*," in *"All In All": Unity, Diversity, and the Miltonic Perspective*, ed. Charles W. Durham and Kristin A Pruitt ( Selinsgrove: Susquehanna UP, 1999) I don't claim to have originated the idea of Eve as the Hero of PL; I think major credit goes to William Empson, though he has predecessors among the Romantics (who tended, however, to focus on Satan rather than Eve). You should be able to pick up some useful bibliographical pointers from that essay, even if you don't find all of its arguments convincing or helpful. Good luck with your search for origins. John Ulreich From: AntiUtopia@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 9:21 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve as Hero You can start with the oldest book you have that advances that thesis and start going through the Bibliography. Look especially for works that are cited in several books. Good luck, Jim From: Dan Knauss [tiresias@juno.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 11:23 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota The "shin" didn't cause a war--that war was already on. Detecting and killing soldiers who couldn't make an "sh" sound was simply a way of prosecuting it. Dan Knauss Department of English, Marquette University daniel.knauss@marquette.edu - tiresias@juno.com Faerspel Studios: http://home.earthlink.net/~faerspel On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 10:31:46 -0000 "rwill" writes: > >It is actually the hebrew letter "shin" which is "the little > letter that > >caused a Biblical war." This, rather than the greek "iota," is > the correct > answer to the question on your Milton list, in my humble opinion: > It really didn't "cause" a war, but did indeed lead to many deaths > after the > war had begun, when it was used to distinguish and then kill those, > the > enemy, who said "sin" instead. There is more at the URL below. > > http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html > > Pax, > Jerome > > I myself can only marvel at all this Hebrew and Greek scholarship, > but I > thought my list friends might help. > Rose Williams > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: Kari McBride [kari@email.arizona.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:37 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve as Hero See John C. Ulreich's "'Argument Not Less But More Heroic': Eve as the Hero of Paradise Lost," in "All in All: Unity, Diversity, and the Miltonic Perspective, ed. Charles W. Durham and Kristin A. Pruitt (Selinsgrove: Susquehanna Univ. Press, 1999), 67-82. From: Hollie Albright [albrighl@muc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2000 12:05 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Eve as Hero I'm doing my senior thesis on Eve's role as the epic hero in Paradise Lost. While this has been a widely discussed topic, I'm still having trouble finding out when this frame of thought began. If anyone has a suggestion as to where I can find more information on this topic, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Hollie Albright Mount Union College From: t.n.corns@bangor.ac.uk Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 10:36 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: British Milton Seminar 23, 17 March 2001 THE BRITISH MILTON SEMINAR BMS 23 SPRING MEETING, 2001 Saturday 17 March 2001 PRELIMINARY NOTICE Venue: In Birmingham Central Library on Saturday 17 March 2001. There will be two sessions, from 11.00 am to 12.30 pm and from 2.00 pm to 4.00 pm. No particular theme has been identified for this meeting, so proposals for any aspect of Milton studies would be welcome. I should like to receive offers of papers no later than 15 December 2000. Thomas N. Corns Joint Convener 13 November 2000 From: Kari McBride [kari@email.arizona.edu] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 3:37 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Eve, Chicago, Pagels Eve plays a minor role in The Dinner Party. Hers is one of 999 names on the Heritage Floor on which the Dinner Party is displayed (2300 hand-made ceramic tiles). Her name, and other "women of achievement" from the Jewish heritage are under the Judith place setting. Of Eve, the Dinner Party researchers said: Derived from earlier myths that present a very different perspective, the biblical story of Eve presents her as responsible for all the evil that befell humankind. This now-familiar story transposes original creation myths, substituting the idea of the Goddess creating life into the story of Eve being created from the rib of Adam. Because Eve transgressed against the wishes of the Hebrew God by eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge, her punishment--and that of all women--was to be endless pain in childbirth. (Judy Chicago, The Dinner Party: A Commemorative Volume Celebrating a Major Monument of Twentieth-Century Art, 47) I know that Margaret Arnold was initially interested in recent visual representations of Eve, but since the discussion has ranged beyond that, I wanted to make sure that Elaine Pagels's Adam, Eve, and the Serpent was included in this discussion. (If somebody has already mentioned this book, sorry to have missed it first time around.) From: Creamer, Kevin [kcreamer@richmond.edu] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2000 9:51 AM To: 'Milton-L@richmond.edu' Subject: FW: call for papers [Moderator's note: this came to me directly, with a request to pass along to the list. - KC] Hello, MartianusCapella.com, a new online metajournal, is calling for papers in all disciplines. The site's purpose is to promote cross disciplinary research, open discussion and synthesis, as well as to provide an easy way to search through multiple documents for specific keywords and topics. Even though we have just opened the site, and only recently issued our first call for papers, MartianusCapella.com has already had more than 4000 visitors. For more information, please see our Mission Statement and FAQ at http://www.MartianusCapella.com or receive a copy of our submission guidelines in your email box by emailing our autoresponder at guidelines@MartianusCapella.com. Thanks and have a good day, C.K. Clarke Editor, MartianusCapella.com From: rwill [rwill627@camalott.com] Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 5:32 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: iota I belong to two lists of Classics professors and teachers, and I sent the iota discussion on to them. Here are two replies I received: >I expect that Mr. Romrich is right in spotting the "Homoiousion" >controversy as the "Biblical war" in question, although "war" (or for >that matter "Biblical") might be putting it a touch strong, even if we take Gibbon's famous account of the controversy ( _Decline & Fall of the Roman Empire_ Ch. 21) at face value. It may also be worth pointing out that the iota in the offending prefix ("homoio-" vs. the orthodox and right-thinking "homo-") isn't a subscript. Finally, brethren, the expression "not an iota" is actually older than the Athanasian/Arian disputes; it derives from the New Testament: hews an parelthe:i ho ouranos kai he: ge:, iwta hen e: mia keraia ou me: parelthe:i apo tou nomou, hews an panta gene:tai. --Matthew 5:18 donec transeat caelum et terra, iota unum aut unus apex non praeteribit a lege, donec omnia fiant. JM("Matthaeus")P >It is actually the hebrew letter "shin" which is "the little letter that >caused a Biblical war." This, rather than the greek "iota," is the correct answer to the question on your Milton list, in my humble opinion: It really didn't "cause" a war, but did indeed lead to many deaths after the war had begun, when it was used to distinguish and then kill those, the enemy, who said "sin" instead. There is more at the URL below. http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~kemmer/Words/shibboleth.html Pax, Jerome I myself can only marvel at all this Hebrew and Greek scholarship, but I thought my list friends might help. Rose Williams From: Cobelli@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 7:07 PM To: Milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve in the fine arts If the foucs is on visual representations, would films perhaps be appropriate? I think particularly of John Huston's ambitious (and admittedly overblown) The Bible. Scott Grunow Editor-in-Chief University of Illinois/Chicago Office of Publications scottgr@uic.edu From: Robert Appelbaum [r_appel@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 4:45 PM To: List Milton Subject: Eve in the fine arts My earlier post seems to have gotten lost in cyberspace. So at the risk of repeating myself (and my apologies to those who may be getting this twice), there is a long tradition of Eve in the visual arts since 1800, including paintings by Klimt and Chagall and a very interesting conceptualist project on revisualizing femininity where, I think, Eve plays a role, Judy Chicago's Dinner Party. The Dinner Party has been published as a book and includes lots of interesting material on the history of representing women in fine art. Klimt and others can be found on the web in several art sites, all accessible through yahoo. One of the best is CarolGerten's Fine Art, cgfa.keloggcreek.com. It has a search engine and if you plug in Eve, up comes about 20 entries. Robert Appelbaum English Department University of San Diego San Diego, CA 92110-2492 Visit my home page: www.geocities.com/r_appel/Robert.html And please forgive the commercial intrusion below: --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All with one Wallet. From: jherz [jherz@vax2.concordia.ca] Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 10:33 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota Another example, this from Donne: "The greatest Heresie there ever was, that of the Arrians, was but in one little letter. So then in Heresie, there is nothing to be called little, nothing to bee suffered." 1625 (6:247.) Judith Herz Sharon Achinstein wrote: > In my reading, this is a reference to the debate in which Marvell > participated over the Arian heresy. This is part of Restoration > debates about the legitimacy of Councils, the nature of the Primitive > Church, and theology/ecclesiological matters of relevance to a > Restoration context of toleration, dissent, antipriestcraft, and the > rise of Socinianism. Marvell's _Short Historical Essay Touching > General Councils, Creeds, and Impositions in Religion_ (1676), an > antipriestcraft polemic, examined the Council of Nice where the Arian > heresy was declared. Marvell denounces the Nicean council. The > 'iota' refers to the orthological difference between 'Homoousians' vs. > 'Homoiousians'--centering on the divinity of Christ. Marvell also > refers to this 'iota' matter in his Rehearsal Transpros'd. Perhaps our > Marvell editors can clarify whether this pamphlet has been > disattributed. There may be earlier uses of this witty theological > point, and I'd be interested to know of them. > > Sharon Achinstein > University of Maryland > > On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:55:58 -0500 Jean Graham wrote: > > > > > Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife > > crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday > > my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter > > that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say > > only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone > > know what this is about? > > > > Jean > > > > This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate > > Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good > > understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages > > in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and > > saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to > > argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King > > James. > > > > ---------------------- > Sharon Achinstein > Associate Professor > Department of English > University of Maryland > College Park, MD 20742 USA > (301) 405-3809 > sa147@umail.umd.edu From: AntiUtopia@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 11:24 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: "the most subversive message in children's literature in Thanks for the reply. It's difficult for me to be fascinated by propoganda posturing as scholarship, but that's just me.... you know, I think that last question of yours was Really the question Lewis was asking... Jim << Facile but fascinating, Jim. NPR did a big panel discussion on Lewis in 1998 and there were callers representing this anti-Lewis/religion/Christianity position quite vehemently. Ironically, they used many of the same arguments various Fundamentalists have posed against the "satanic" Narnian series. Most annoying is the Platonism=Manicheanism, Christianity and Lewis guilt-by-association argument. Don't they teach logic in British schools anymore? Dan Knauss Department of English, Marquette University daniel.knauss@marquette.edu - tiresias@juno.com Faerspel Studios: http://home.earthlink.net/~faerspel On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:02:01 EST AntiUtopia@aol.com writes: > years"] > To: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Message-ID: > Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu > > I can't believe how facile this book review was...the belief that > organized > religion is evil is somehow revolutionary? Lewis's fiction is > anti-life? > Have they bothered to actually **read** the Chronicles? > > The reference to Plato is not necessarily an endorsement of all > Platonism, > btw...what a shallow reading....pathetic. > > Jim > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. >> From: Alan Rudrum [rudrum@sfu.ca] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 6:28 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts Mario Di Cesare wrote: I seem to remember a book on illustrations of Milton or PL by Marcia Pointer? ****************************8 Not quite, I think; see ref to my review below: Marcia R. Pointon, Milton and English Art, in West Coast Review, Vol. 6, No. 1 (1971), 56-57. Alan Rudrum From: Dillingham, Tom [TomDill@wc.stephens.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:42 PM To: 'Milton-l@urich.edu' Subject: FW: Eve in the Fine Arts I think I have missed some of this thread, so I apologize if this is an unnecessary repetition, but there is a study by John Phillips called _Eve: The History of an Idea_ that might be useful to the student. Also, Stephen Behrendt's volume, _The Moment of Explosion: Blake and the Illustration of Milton_ includes information about both Blake's and other artists' representations of Eve. Tom Dillingham -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia A. Gilliatt To: Milton-l list Cc: 'Margaret Arnold'; 'Milton-l@urich.edu' Sent: 11/6/00 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts For a modern Eve figure she might consult ursula K. Leguin's short story "She Unnames Them." It would be interesting to see what she makes of The Lady in Lewis' "Perelandra." Let us know how this progresses. Cynthia G. -- JMU SAFE ZONES PARTICIPANT Cynthia A. Gilliatt English Department MSC 1801 James Madison University Harrisonburg VA 22807 gilliaca@jmu.edu http://raven.jmu.edu/~gilliaca/ 540-568-3762 or 6202 From: Grady Harris [gradyh@mindspring.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 6:18 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota His former professor was, most likely, remembering one of those hilarious passages in Gibbon's _The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_, Chap.XXI, in particular, para. 14 (Vol. I, pg. 690, in the Modern Library edition I have). It discusses the homoousian/homoiousian controversy between the Arians (or Semi-Arians) and those who established themselves as the orthodox, among whom Athanasius was foremost. Grady Harris Atlanta GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Graham" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2000 12:55 PM Subject: Re: iota > > Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife > crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday > my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter > that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say > only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone > know what this is about? > > Jean > > This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate > Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good > understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages > in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and > saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to > argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King > James. > From: Phillip Sidney Horky [phorky@midway.uchicago.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 4:02 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota Hello, everyone. You all thought that you lost me to Classics, but I'm still here. What follows is an extremely simplified version of the story of the iota that nearly destroyed the early Christian Church. The problem is, at its most basic level, one of manuscripts. JOHN (I believe) lists that the Logos is "homoousios to patri (being of one substance with the Father)" or "homoiousios to patri (being similar to the Father)." The "iota subscriptum" as it is called presented a large problem (and still does, in some camps) to Early Christian theologians. Most of this controversy stems originally (no pun intended) from the left and right wings of Origen's followers. On the one hand, the right wing believed that nothing is created or subordinate in the "trias" (trinity), and thus the Son incarnate in Jesus is not subordinate to the Father. The other camp believed that The Son was a created being, second in the hierarchy (as the Logos) to the Father. The Council at Nicaea (AD 325) attempted to resolve this situation, asserting that Jesus Christ was "one Lord...the Son of God, begotten of the Father, the only-begotten of the essence of the Father, God of God, and Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten NOT MADE (my italics), being of ONE SUBSTANCE (homoousios) with the Father...." Once again, the followers of the hierarchic Trinitarian system were not pleased, and they organized resistance against the Nicaenum and supporters such as Marcellus and Athanasius. The popular opinion in the East was that the trinity is to be seen in degrees, but that the Father is unconditioned and unlimited. The group, however agitated, was unable to keep its composure, and as such they split into many groups, including the Anaomoeans (who believed that the Son is wholly a creation) and the Homoiousianoi (who believed that the Father and Son are equal in all respects, but do not share in the same substance). It was not until AD 381, at the Synod of Constantinople, was able to resolve the situation by uniting the homoousios and the homoiousios. There are reports that the hostile pagans in Alexandria would make fun of the civil and theological battles that took place over the iota, the smallest letter in the Greek alphabet. A larger, more comprehensive study of this can be found in Paul Tillich's A HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN THOUGHT. I do no justice to the topic in this email. Take care everyone, Phillip Horky Graduate Student, Department of Classical Languages and Literature, University of Chicago From: Robert Appelbaum [r_appel@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 5:57 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: RE: Eve in the Fine Arts Here is the web address of a good source of web-based art reproductions, complete with a search engine. A quick look shows images of Eve by Klimt, Chagall, Maxfield Parrish, and several other post-1800 authors. There are other art history sites worth consulting too. Yahoo lists a number of them. And finally, your student may want to check out Judy Chicago's Dinner Party, a conceptual art project that has been reproduced as a book, and that aims to visually re-do the ideal concept of a woman. I'm not sure whether Eve was once of the guests at this imaginary party, but surely Chicago's own commentary on her project will help orient your student to the legacy of Eve. http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/ With regards, Bob Appelbaum "Arnold, Margaret" wrote: Thanks so much for the suggestions, Cynthia. I did not know the Leguin story and am glad to learn of it. I am in the middle of a semester with a small class studying a range of paradises, and have several students interested in Milton topics. At this point it's difficult to assess our progress, but I'll certainly have something to say about it early in December. The student with the Eve quest, though, is looking for visual representations, so I am still open to suggestions. Another class member is off reading Leguin now. I appreciate hearing. Margaret J. Arnold Department of English University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045 -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia A. Gilliatt To: Milton-l list Cc: 'Margaret Arnold'; 'Milton-l@urich.edu' Sent: 11/6/00 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts For a modern Eve figure she might consult ursula K. Leguin's short story "She Unnames Them." It would be interesting to see what she makes of The Lady in Lewis' "Perelandra." Let us know how this progresses. Cynthia G. -- JMU SAFE ZONES PARTICIPANT Cynthia A. Gilliatt English Department MSC 1801 James Madison University Harrisonburg VA 22807 gilliaca@jmu.edu http://raven.jmu.edu/~gilliaca/ 540-568-3762 or 6202 Robert Appelbaum English Department University of San Diego San Diego, CA 92110-2492 Visit my home page: www.geocities.com/r_appel/Robert.html And please forgive the commercial intrusion below: --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All with one Wallet. From: Robert Appelbaum [r_appel@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 5:49 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: RE: Eve in the Fine Arts "Arnold, Margaret" wrote: Thanks so much for the suggestions, Cynthia. I did not know the Leguin story and am glad to learn of it. I am in the middle of a semester with a small class studying a range of paradises, and have several students interested in Milton topics. At this point it's difficult to assess our progress, but I'll certainly have something to say about it early in December. The student with the Eve quest, though, is looking for visual representations, so I am still open to suggestions. Another class member is off reading Leguin now. I appreciate hearing. Margaret J. Arnold Department of English University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045 -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia A. Gilliatt To: Milton-l list Cc: 'Margaret Arnold'; 'Milton-l@urich.edu' Sent: 11/6/00 7:51 AM Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts For a modern Eve figure she might consult ursula K. Leguin's short story "She Unnames Them." It would be interesting to see what she makes of The Lady in Lewis' "Perelandra." Let us know how this progresses. Cynthia G. -- JMU SAFE ZONES PARTICIPANT Cynthia A. Gilliatt English Department MSC 1801 James Madison University Harrisonburg VA 22807 gilliaca@jmu.edu http://raven.jmu.edu/~gilliaca/ 540-568-3762 or 6202 Robert Appelbaum English Department University of San Diego San Diego, CA 92110-2492 Visit my home page: www.geocities.com/r_appel/Robert.html And please forgive the commercial intrusion below: --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All with one Wallet. From: Greg Benoit [gregwa@gregwa.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 6:13 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: "Fate" etc. in PL I am currently working on an essay addressing Milton's use of terms such as "fate," "chance," "necessity," and "fortune" to refer to God's sovereign will. I have not had luck in locating any previously published work which addresses this question; does anybody know of anything available? -gregory c. benoit gregwa@gregwa.com ________________________ http://www.gregwa.com From: Dan Knauss [tiresias@juno.com] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 10:04 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: "the most subversive message in children's literature in Facile but fascinating, Jim. NPR did a big panel discussion on Lewis in 1998 and there were callers representing this anti-Lewis/religion/Christianity position quite vehemently. Ironically, they used many of the same arguments various Fundamentalists have posed against the "satanic" Narnian series. Most annoying is the Platonism=Manicheanism, Christianity and Lewis guilt-by-association argument. Don't they teach logic in British schools anymore? Dan Knauss Department of English, Marquette University daniel.knauss@marquette.edu - tiresias@juno.com Faerspel Studios: http://home.earthlink.net/~faerspel On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 10:02:01 EST AntiUtopia@aol.com writes: > years"] > To: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Message-ID: > Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu > > I can't believe how facile this book review was...the belief that > organized > religion is evil is somehow revolutionary? Lewis's fiction is > anti-life? > Have they bothered to actually **read** the Chronicles? > > The reference to Plato is not necessarily an endorsement of all > Platonism, > btw...what a shallow reading....pathetic. > > Jim > ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From: John Rumrich [rumrich@mail.utexas.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 9:10 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota I don't recall where I got this little bit of history, nor do I know how reliable it is, but I believe that your instructor's reference hearkens back to fourth century debates between Arians and Athanasians regarding the nature of Jesus Christ. Many Arians were willing to sign off on a version of the creed that included the affirmation of the Son's essence being similar to the Father's (homoi-ousia). But the Athanasians wanted to drop the iota (homo-ousia) and thereby insist on the oneness of the Father and Son ("of one substance with the Father" rather than "of substance similar to the Father's"). I think the Arians felt betrayed when the iota was dropped from the version of the creed they had approved, though otherwise the it had remained unchanged. And that, I recall being told, a long time ago, is the origin of the phrase "not an iota" being used to mean "no changes at all." The story goes something like that, but I bet this account is not altogether accurate. Someone will surely help out with the straight skinny. John Rumrich >Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife >crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday >my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter >that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say >only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone >know what this is about? > >Jean From: Stella Revard [srevard@siue.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:22 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota The iota in question relates to whether the Son was homos (the same) as the Father--no iota-- or homoios (like or similar) to the Father--with an iota. It was the iota that was said to separate the Western and the Eastern Church-- and caused the controversy over views of the Trinity. That in brief was my understanding of the controversy. I am sure that others on the list can provide a more detailed explanation and a list of readings on the subject. Stella Revard >Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife >crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday >my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter >that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say >only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone >know what this is about? > >Jean > >This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate >Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good >understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages >in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and >saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to >argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King >James. From: George Miller [miller@odin.english.udel.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 3:01 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota The "iota" refers to the difference between the two Greek words "of the same substance" and "of a similar substance"--the difference being the "i" or iota. The "war" was the theological dispute raging over whether the Son was of the same substance as the Father and if so did that mean that there was no distincion between the Father and the Son. The Council of Nicea declared the Son to be with the Father. George Miller. On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Jean Graham wrote: > > Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife > crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday > my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter > that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say > only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone > know what this is about? > > Jean > > This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate > Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good > understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages > in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and > saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to > argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King > James. > > From: Kristine L. Haugen [klhaugen@phoenix.Princeton.EDU] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 1:15 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota Dear Jean, The words he must have been referring to are homoousios (of the same nature) and homoiousios (of similar nature)--they represent two different accounts of the relationship between the Son and the Father (to use Miltonic names for them). There's a New Catholic Encyclopedia article at http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07449a.htm. Offhand I can't remember seeing much scholarly writing about these terms in the 17th C., although they certainly came up in theological polemics. If you want total philological immersion, there must be gratifyingly complicated articles in G. W. H. Lampe's Patristic Greek Lexicon (1961). Best, Kristine Haugen ______________________ Kristine Louise Haugen Princeton University Department of English 22 McCosh Hall Princeton, NJ 08544 USA Permanent email: k-haugen-1@alumni.uchicago.edu On Wed, 8 Nov 2000, Jean Graham wrote: > > Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife > crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday > my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter > that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say > only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone > know what this is about? > > Jean > > This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate > Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good > understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages > in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and > saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to > argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King > James. > > From: Stella Revard [srevard@siue.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 11:39 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts Your student should look at Wendy Furman-Adams' work on the illustrations of Paradise Lost--a couple of essays in Milton Studies. I think she would find some positive images of Eve and a feminist slant in some of the twentieth-century illustrations. Stella Revard From: Roy Flannagan [Roy@gwm.sc.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 8:13 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Eve in the Fine Arts That was close, Mario, but it's Marcia Pointon, Milton and English Art = (Toronto: U Toronto P, 1970). There are several books and articles on M = and landscape art (John Dixon Hunt, for one; little to do with Eve there, = I reckon), and some articles on the 1688 Folio illustrations (Shawcross, = Ravenhall, and Schoenberg). J.B. Trapp has also written on the iconography= of the Fall. Check my bibliography for PL in the Riverside Milton. Best From: Sharon Achinstein [sa147@umail.umd.edu] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 10:46 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: iota In my reading, this is a reference to the debate in which Marvell participated over the Arian heresy. This is part of Restoration debates about the legitimacy of Councils, the nature of the Primitive Church, and theology/ecclesiological matters of relevance to a Restoration context of toleration, dissent, antipriestcraft, and the rise of Socinianism. Marvell's _Short Historical Essay Touching General Councils, Creeds, and Impositions in Religion_ (1676), an antipriestcraft polemic, examined the Council of Nice where the Arian heresy was declared. Marvell denounces the Nicean council. The 'iota' refers to the orthological difference between 'Homoousians' vs. 'Homoiousians'--centering on the divinity of Christ. Marvell also refers to this 'iota' matter in his Rehearsal Transpros'd. Perhaps our Marvell editors can clarify whether this pamphlet has been disattributed. There may be earlier uses of this witty theological point, and I'd be interested to know of them. Sharon Achinstein University of Maryland On Wed, 08 Nov 2000 12:55:58 -0500 Jean Graham wrote: > > Slightly off topic here, but I'm studying classical Greek (a midlife > crisis/vain attempt to catch up with Milton the polyglot), and yesterday > my instructor referred to the iota (subscript) as "the little letter > that caused a Biblical war." When we asked him to explain, he could say > only that he'd heard that from one of his former professors. Anyone > know what this is about? > > Jean > > This semester when we were discussing "Of Education" in my undergraduate > Milton class, I asked Milton's reasons for advocating a good > understanding of Latin and Greek. The reply: those were the languages > in which the Bible was originally written. I asked about Hebrew, and > saw 20 blank faces. I suppose I should be glad that no one tried to > argue that the Bible was originally written in the English of King > James. > ---------------------- Sharon Achinstein Associate Professor Department of English University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 USA (301) 405-3809 sa147@umail.umd.edu