From: Lew Kaye-Skinner [L.Kaye-Skinner@navix.net] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 2:50 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Query on scholarly edition of KJV The Oxford Annotated Study Bibles are available in more than one edition. I have both an Oxford Annotated RSV and a New Oxford Annotated NRSV. Currently, I am making more use of the HarperCollins NRSV Study Bible; the annotations of this version were done by members of the Society of Biblical Literature. As you're looking for a scholarly edition of the Authorized Version, however, you probably will not be satisfied by these study Bibles. They are set up for students of the Bible, not students of a particular version. Several scholarly studies are available of the Authorized Version, though they might not be what you are looking for in an undergraduate textbook. Lew Kaye-Skinner From: James Dougal Fleming [jdf26@columbia.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 4:01 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: query look in Columbia Milton vol. 18. JDF. On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, deg wrote: > hello all > > does anyone on the list know where i might find out information about > milton's marginalia/ reading habits. i'm looking at his annotated > books in the BL at the moment and was wondering if there is anything > on this (other than Achinstein and von Maltzahn). > > thanks in advance > > jerome de groot > jerome.de-groot@ncl.ac.uk > 07930 954642 > From: Derek Wood [dwood@stfx.ca] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:26 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Empson query <3947936A.386@interpath.com> Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu Mario A. DiCesare wrote: > ..... Unlike many safe critics and scholars and theorists, who > hew to a favored line, Empson stimulated a lot of lively thought and > discussion of major issues. > > Cordially, > > Mario A. Di Cesare I would like to echo Professor Di Cesare's words with enthusiasm. I think Empson's chapter on Dalila/Delilah - not the most frequently cited of his works - is still the finest thing written about her. I began my own paper on Dalila at Murfreesboro in 1997 by dedicating it to Empson, to the puzzlement of some audience members. Best wishes, Derek Wood. From: enl096@abdn.ac.uk Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 4:19 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Query on scholarly edition of KJV The Oxfo1rd edition -- edited by Robert Carroll and Stephen Pricket -- is in fact the KJV, with modernised spelling. It'sa useful edition. Joad Raymond --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using DISS Web Mail. http://www.abdn.ac.uk/local/mailman/ From: Timothy Burbery [burbery@MARSHALL.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 9:24 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Reviews of SA performances? Fellow Listers: I am looking for print reviews of performances of *Samson Agonistes.* So far I have about twelve, including the following: a 1998 production of SA, reviewed by TLS; a 1985 production at Yale, discussed in MQ; Neville Coghill's two performances, both in 1955; Max Beerbohm's scathing account of the 1908 Tercentenary staging of the tragedy; the MQ discussion of the 1979 Le Moyne Readers' Theater version; and a 1965 review of Michael Redgrave's production, in the London Times. I'm sure I'm missing some, including one I'd love to get some information on, namely, C.S. Lewis' favorable account of a production that had some sort of African influence in it. Any leads would be appreciated. Best, Tim Burbery From: ShemthePenman2@cs.com Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 11:04 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: (no subject) I know this is a Milton group, but I wanted to wish everyone a very happy Bloomsday. From: Derek Wood [dwood@stfx.ca] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 4:11 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Help requested. Can any one give me the reference details for W.R. Parker's review of F.M. Krouse's Milton's Samson and the Christian Tradition? I thought it was JEGP but that's incorrect All I know is it's pages 103-105! Krouse's book was published in 1949 by Princeton UP. It's quite interesting. Parker lashes the young scholar for "reckless riding of a thesis" and padding out what might have been material for two journal articles, producing a book for $3.75, which is "unfair to libraries...in these days of expensive printing." Parker cautions scholars and potential buyers away from this "unnecessary" book. Coming from such an eminence, this must have been quite a blow to a young academic, publishing his first book. Which is itself a caution. Krouse's book became the standard work on Milton's play for a quarter century until Anthony Low's book appeared. I think it was quoted more often than Parker's book during this period and later, and pointed the way scholarly studies of the play were to go. Many thanks in expectation. Derek Wood. From: Derek Wood [dwood@stfx.ca] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 2:59 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: query You may get some help (and leads) from: Michael Bauman. A Scripture Index to John Milton's De Doctrina Christiana. Binghamton: MRTS, 1989. Jackson C. Boswell. Milton's Library London: Garland, 1975. Ruth Mohl. John Milton and his Commonplace Book. New York: Frederick Ungar, 1969. J.H. Hanford. "The Chronology of Milton's Private Studies."PMLA. 36(1921): . 251-314. See the index entry "marginalia" in W.R. Parker's biography. Best wishes, Derek Wood, St. Francis Xavier University. deg wrote: > hello all > > does anyone on the list know where i might find out information about > milton's marginalia/ reading habits. i'm looking at his annotated > books in the BL at the moment and was wondering if there is anything > on this (other than Achinstein and von Maltzahn). > > thanks in advance > > jerome de groot > jerome.de-groot@ncl.ac.uk > 07930 954642 From: EDWARD J JONES [edward@okstate.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 5:59 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: query I would think volume one of the Yale Prose which covers the Commonplace Book should furnish some initial impressions. French's Life Records notes books containing marginalia but corrections have been provided by Parker and most recently by Gordon Campbell's Chronology. There is no expedient short cut to this subject, but these are starting places. Hanford's essay on the Commonplace Book from years back still stands up as an important guide to Milton's reading habits and his notetaking on that reading. At Illinois is Lycophron's Alexandra which contains Milton's annotations in Greek. John Shawcross has prepared an account of this text in an article which appeared some time back in Milton Quarterly. What one discovers, of course, is that many more books containing annotations have been attributed to but not definitively proved to be Milton's. A careful study of Milton's hand and its various permutations reveals the need to proceed cautiously in attributing annotations to Milton. A case in point: while the Euripides in the Bodley and the corrections to the volume for King at University Library Cambridge are in his hand, the signature "ex libris Johannis Miltonii" which appears in William Ames's Conscientia (which is housed at Princeton) is not so easily determined to be Milton's. This may be more than what you wanted, but I have found the going slow when the whole issue of Milton marginalia and what he has and has not read rears its head. Edward Jones On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, deg wrote: > hello all > > does anyone on the list know where i might find out information about > milton's marginalia/ reading habits. i'm looking at his annotated > books in the BL at the moment and was wondering if there is anything > on this (other than Achinstein and von Maltzahn). > > thanks in advance > > jerome de groot > jerome.de-groot@ncl.ac.uk > 07930 954642 > > From: Jameela Lares [jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:57 PM To: 'milton-l@richmond.edu' Subject: RE: Query on scholarly edition of KJV Thanks for sending on this message. I am familiar with this Bible and have told the student about it. I thought he might be looking for more info that it supplies, but perhaps he will check it out. Jameela Lares Associate Professor of English University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 +(601) 266-6214 ofc +(601) 266-5757 fax On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Patricia J. Nebrida wrote: > Jameela, > > The Bible: Authorized King James Version with Apocrypha. Oxford: Oxford UP, > 1998. Notes and Introduction by Robert Carroll and Stephen Prickett, > respectively. It's available in paperback and includes a select > bibliography and glossary. > > Hope this helps. > > Patricia J. Nebrida > Dissertator > English > Loyola University, Chicago, IL > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jameela Lares [SMTP:jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] > Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 5:04 AM > To: Milton-List > Subject: Query on scholarly edition of KJV > > > A student of a friend had the following query. I seem to think that > versions of this question have been posed before, but not in this exact > details. Replies on- or off-list would be appreciated. Thanks! > > Jameela Lares > University of Southern Mississippi > > Query: "I'm looking for a literary edition of the King James Bible, you > know, with notes and, if available, discussions of the funky translations > from the original languages. I've heard that Norton is supposedly putting > one out, but it wasn't listed with an on-line version of Books in Print." > From: Carrol Cox [cbcox@ilstu.edu] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 3:51 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor Carol Barton wrote: > > What it is, is a reminder that Memorial Day is about more than the > beaches opening, and the stores running their marathon sales, and the > picnics and pool parties and barbecues you will attend this long > weekend, if you're like most of America. Memorial Day was originally to commemorate the dead in one of the two non-criminal wars the U.S. has fought, The War of the Slavedrivers Insurrection. Of one earlier war, the Mexican War, General U.S. Grant wrote in his Memoirs that it was "the most unjust war ever fought by a strong nation against a weak one." That is obviously the case of the genocidal wars against the Indians, of the war in which the U.S. aborted the growing success of the independence movements in the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and Cuba in order to subordinate them to another century of oppression, and of the many criminal incursions into Haiti, Dominican Republic, Colombia, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Grenada. We do not honor the men whose lives were sacrificed in these criminal adventures by turning the memory of their deaths into an apology for the government that murdered them. Woodrow Wilson, not the German Army, killed the U.S. soldiers who died in the insane conflict known as World War I. (The heroes of that war were Rosa Luxemburg, Eugene Debs, Karl Liebknecht, the men of the Easter Rebellion, V. I. Lenin, the I.W.W.) Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower slaughtered the men who died in the invasion of Korea. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon murdered the men who died in the genocidal attack on Vietnam. A fitting codicil to that murderous conflict was recently written in a federal court in Atlanta, where a former army chaplain, winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor, was sent to prison for one year for protesting the US Army's 'School of Assassins' at Fort Benning. And Texas recently executed a Vietnam veteran who suffered from mental illness. I have not heard the song, but from the negative reaction of New York Fraternal Order of Police president Bob Lucente, Bruce Springsteen's song "41 Shots" (referring to the killing of Amadou Diallo) might be a fine song with which to celebrate future Memorial Days. Carrol From: Andrew Fleck [flecka@cgu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:49 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Coordinating Milton Marathons Message-ID: Sender: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Precedence: bulk Reply-To: milton-l@richmond.edu Dear Milton Listmembers: I am thinking ahead to the marathon reading of Paradise Lost that I am planning for Spring 2001 (my first as a professor, rather than as an organizer of fellow grad students) and I had a thought: Perhaps next year we could pick an important spring date from Milton's life and then coordinate the many disparate marathons as one international event. Then students might enjoy not only the experience of reading the great poem aloud together in a spirit of single-campus camaraderie, but would feel connected to the larger world of lovers of Milton. Has this been tried before? Would anyone be interested in holding their marathon readings in this way? I'd welcome suggestions for a significant date. Sincerely, Andrew Fleck From: John Hale [John.Hale@stonebow.otago.ac.nz] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 6:16 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: query, Milton's marginalia You could try my comments in Milton's Languages, ch. 4, with the essays and notes cited there. John K. Hale From: John Hale [John.Hale@stonebow.otago.ac.nz] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 6:08 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Query on scholarly edition of KJV Didn't David Daiches write his (Oxford) doctoral thesis on the KJV, and if so was this ever published? JKH From: Tony Hill [mjksezth@fs1.ce.umist.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 1:12 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor Date sent: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:50:37 -0500 From: Carrol Cox To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor Send reply to: milton-l@richmond.edu > We do not honor the men whose lives were sacrificed in these > criminal adventures by turning the memory of their deaths into > an apology for the government that murdered them. Woodrow > Wilson, not the German Army, killed the U.S. soldiers who > died in the insane conflict known as World War I. (The heroes > of that war were Rosa Luxemburg, Eugene Debs, Karl > Liebknecht, the men of the Easter Rebellion, V. I. Lenin, > the I.W.W.) Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower slaughtered > the men who died in the invasion of Korea. Eisenhower, Kennedy, > Johnson, and Nixon murdered the men who died in the genocidal > attack on Vietnam. A fitting codicil to that murderous conflict was > recently written in a federal court in Atlanta, where a former army > chaplain, winner of the Congressional Medal of Honor, was sent to > prison for one year for protesting the US Army's 'School of Assassins' > at Fort Benning. And Texas recently executed a Vietnam veteran > who suffered from mental illness. > > I have not heard the song, but from the negative reaction of New York > Fraternal Order of Police president Bob Lucente, Bruce Springsteen's > song "41 Shots" (referring to the killing of Amadou Diallo) might > be a fine song with which to celebrate future Memorial Days. > > Carrol (Cox) Yes of course but I don't think the original posting was aiming that way. When we observe what we call Remembrance Day every November I don't forget about, for example, Victor Jara's bloody murder by the Chilean junta, with a little help from their friends. My country supplied them with Hawker Hunters and Chieftan tanks and yours has much to account for over that period too. I don't forget about the thousands of others who died besides the brave Victor. But what I do remember is my Uncle Tom and his perforated ear drums from the desert war with Rommel. I think of my father in law who wept when he remembered blood running down the gutters of Italian towns; the blood of the other young men who were his friends. I remember my pal Steve's dad refusing to talk about it at all. The three men I refer to are all dead now and they were permanently scarred by the horrors they went through. All three were in the British Eighth Army and they were amongst the lucky ones. "Look along the mountains in the mud and rain See the scattered crosses, there's some that have no name. Heartbreak and pain and suffering gone, The boys beneath them slumber on...." The Eighth Army sang that to the tune of Lily Marlene ("their song"). Those "boys" were standing between me and people like me, who could not then defend themselves, and FACISM. That is what they fought, suffered and died for. Maybe you don't want to remember or acknowledge such heroism but I always will. Carol Barton's posting was right and I applaud her for it. Tony Hill (Manchester, England). Tony Hill www.ce.umist.ac.uk From: danielso@interchange.ubc.ca Sent: Friday, June 23, 2000 12:43 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: The Book of the Cosmos Dear Fellow Miltonists, As personally as this medium permits, I wanted to tell friends and colleagues interested in astronomy, cosmology, and aerospace--and generally in science, literature, and religion (which I reckon must take in all Miltonists)--about my new publication: T H E B O O K O F T H E C O S M O S: Imagining the Universe from Heraclitus to Hawking (Cambridge, MA: Perseus Publishing, 2000) To put it informally, this book is my annotated pick of western cosmology's greatest hits from ancient times to the present--a sweeping, accessible, and lively telling of that story in firsthand writings. With emphasis on the art as well as the science of cosmology, I present not only colorful gems of scientific prose but also brilliant excerpts from poetry and philosophy, diaries and dialogues, essays and epistles. (Did I mention EPIC poetry? Yes, of course Milton is one of my picks.) THE BOOK OF THE COSMOS is an ideal gift book for introducing the inquisitive person to the broad canvas of cosmology. It can similarly be used as a source book in generalist college courses on the universe, or on literature and science. Or it can just be enjoyed as a surprisingly coherent narrative--of cosmic passion, awe, intellectual flair, and not-infrequent bewilderment--richly woven by a hundred cosmologists across history whom we hear speaking vividly and engagingly in their own voices. For more information (including an annotated table of contents) I invite you to visit my home page, . Or better yet, look for THE BOOK OF THE COSMOS at your local independent bookstore. Official publication is a week or two away, but it should be available now, at least in the US, and certainly on the Web. Gratefully and with best regards, Dennis Danielson, editor THE BOOK OF THE COSMOS ______________ "The romance of cosmic discovery has never been so thoroughly documented ..." -Neil deGrasse Tyson "... this treasury will bring delight and even amazement to many readers." -Michael J. Crowe "... a thrilling read to set the heart racing and the mind soaring." -Sean Abbott From: rwill627 [rwill627@camalott.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 5:58 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor If all those enlightened forces which Woodrow Wilson, Truman, Eisenhower et al so basely slaughtered were engaged in bringing peace and light to the countries they were overwhelming, and all their actions were carried out with kindness and sweet reasoning conversation rather than bloodshed, then it was indeed wicked of our leaders to bring violence against men who had never raised a hand in violence themselves. Rose Williams From: Roy Flannagan [flannaga@oak.cats.ohiou.edu] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:01 PM To: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: A query I just wrote something that I am not really sure of, repeating some recent truisms about Milton's politics and beliefs in human rights: Milton’s ideal government system, which can be over-simply represented as rule by an educated elite rather than by an inherited monarchy, is more appealing to modern taste than the image of a king or queen with life or death power over a cringing public, but Milton did not believe in universal franchise (he may or may not have believed that women should have legal rights or own property or vote–we don’t know, for sure). He almost surely believed that some people were too ignorant to be given the vote, and he may have believed that some nations were too backward to govern themselves–the Irish, for instance. I appeal to the wisdom of the list to correct what I have written where it needs to be corrected. Would Milton have endorsed suffragettes, before their time? He willed his personal property to his wife, but limited his daughters' inheritance to uncollected debts from the Powell family. Does that mean that he wanted to empower his wife, or does it only indicate that he had no living son to leave his small estate to? Is it wishful thinking on our modern part, to want to believe that Milton wanted to believe in "one man, one vote," or in "one woman, one vote"? My inclusion of the Irish, whom Milton labeled "those murdrous Irish the enemies of God and mankind" (Yale 1.798), was deliberately provocative. The Irish were abhorred barbarians, wild Papists, pirates, according to Milton, when King Charles enlisted their support. I am open to being informed on any and all of these issues. Best, Roy Flannagan From: Derek Wood [dwood@stfx.ca] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 3:08 PM To: Andrew Fleck Cc: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Coordinating Milton Marathons Andrew Fleck wrote: > ....Perhaps next year we could pick an important spring date from Milton's > life and then coordinate the many disparate marathons.... Milton took his B.A. on 26 March 1629. He married Elizabeth Minshull on 24 February 1663. Appointed Secretary for Foreign Tongues 13 March 1649. Unfortunately, Areopagitica was published in November. The contract with the printer for PL was signed on 27 April 1667. Not very exciting moments. The first might interest students with graduation coming up. Best wishes, Derek Wood.. From: Ucbubba@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:58 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor In a message dated 6/27/00 1:19:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mjksezth@fs1.ce.umist.ac.uk writes: << (The heroes of that war were Rosa Luxemburg, Eugene Debs, Karl > Liebknecht, the men of the Easter Rebellion, V. I. Lenin, > the I.W.W.) Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower slaughtered > the men who died in the invasion of Korea. Eisenhower, Kennedy, > Johnson, and Nixon murdered the men who died in the genocidal > attack on Vietnam. >> Is this what the list has degenerated to? From: AntiUtopia@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:56 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: A query Well, it's nice to know Milton really understood the Irish, at least :) Course, I'd rather hang around an Irishman on a bad day than a true Englishman on any day... Jim PS I aprpeciate both of the Carol's geopolitical comments on this list. I wish I had a more detailed understanding of history in order to contribute a bit more intelligently. I will say, though, that American lives lost in Korea purchased for South Korea a level of freedom and prosperity that would have been unheard of otherwise. Just spend a week in Seoul, then spend a week anywhere in North Korea. . .especially now that it's largely been abandoned by Russia and China. Time to start seeing who the real oppressors are, and the real victims. . .unilateral critique of U.S. policy and praise for its opponents isn't politcal saavy, it's just another form of naivete. In a message dated Wed, 28 Jun 2000 3:58:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Roy Flannagan writes: << I just wrote something that I am not really sure of, repeating some recent truisms about Milton's politics and beliefs in human rights: Milton’s ideal government system, which can be over-simply represented as rule by an educated elite rather than by an inherited monarchy, is more appealing to modern taste than the image of a king or queen with life or death power over a cringing public, but Milton did not believe in universal franchise (he may or may not have believed that women should have legal rights or own property or vote­we don’t know, for sure). He almost surely believed that some people were too ignorant to be given the vote, and he may have believed that some nations were too backward to govern themselves­the Irish, for instance. I appeal to the wisdom of the list to correct what I have written where it needs to be corrected. Would Milton have endorsed suffragettes, before their time? He willed his personal property to his wife, but ! li! mited his daughters' inheritance to uncollected debts from the Powell family. Does that mean that he wanted to empower his wife, or does it only indicate that he had no living son to leave his small estate to? Is it wishful thinking on our modern part, to want to believe that Milton wanted to believe in "one man, one vote," or in "one woman, one vote"? My inclusion of the Irish, whom Milton labeled "those murdrous Irish the enemies of God and mankind" (Yale 1.798), was deliberately provocative. The Irish were abhorred barbarians, wild Papists, pirates, according to Milton, when King Charles enlisted their support. I am open to being informed on any and all of these issues. Best, Roy Flannagan >> From: Gary Gutchess [gutchess@englishare.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 4:40 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: RE: Returning the favor Are there other Milton message boards to try? This group really isn't on point. -----Original Message----- From: owner-milton-l@richmond.edu [mailto:owner-milton-l@richmond.edu]On Behalf Of Ucbubba@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 11:58 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor In a message dated 6/27/00 1:19:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mjksezth@fs1.ce.umist.ac.uk writes: << (The heroes of that war were Rosa Luxemburg, Eugene Debs, Karl > Liebknecht, the men of the Easter Rebellion, V. I. Lenin, > the I.W.W.) Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower slaughtered > the men who died in the invasion of Korea. Eisenhower, Kennedy, > Johnson, and Nixon murdered the men who died in the genocidal > attack on Vietnam. >> Is this what the list has degenerated to? From: Lew Kaye-Skinner [L.Kaye-Skinner@navix.net] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 10:00 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Coordinating Milton Marathons I'm sure I'm not the only one on the list with a calendar, but I did check the dates Andrew Fleck gave us for 2001. 24 Feb is a Saturday. 13 Mar is a Tuesday. 26 Mar is a Monday. On 06/28/2000, at 4:07 PM, Derek Wood wrote: >Andrew Fleck wrote: > > > ....Perhaps next year we could pick an important spring date from Milton's > > life and then coordinate the many disparate marathons.... > >Milton took his B.A. on 26 March 1629. He married Elizabeth Minshull on 24 >February 1663. Appointed Secretary for Foreign Tongues 13 March 1649. >Unfortunately, Areopagitica was published in November. The contract with the >printer for PL was signed on 27 April 1667. Not very exciting moments. The >first might interest students with graduation coming up. > Best wishes, > Derek Wood.. From: Tony Hill [mjksezth@fs1.ce.umist.ac.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 5:28 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Returning the favor From: Ucbubba@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 11:57:37 EDT Subject: Re: Returning the favor To: milton-l@richmond.edu Send reply to: milton-l@richmond.edu > In a message dated 6/27/00 1:19:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > mjksezth@fs1.ce.umist.ac.uk writes: > > << (The heroes of that war were Rosa Luxemburg, Eugene Debs, Karl > > Liebknecht, the men of the Easter Rebellion, V. I. Lenin, > > the I.W.W.) Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower slaughtered > > the men who died in the invasion of Korea. Eisenhower, Kennedy, > > Johnson, and Nixon murdered the men who died in the genocidal > > attack on Vietnam. >> > > Is this what the list has degenerated to? > I did not write this. I do not normally reply, incidentally, to anonymous messages. Tony Hill www.ce.umist.ac.uk From: Prineas Matthew [prinmatt@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 6:03 PM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: geopolitics I feel guilty for continuing this not exactly Milton-related thread, but I've just read Robert Conquest's _Ravaged Century_, which drove the last few nails in the coffin (for me) of silly tragic misinformed residual leftist sympathies for those "other systems." Conquest pursues the question: how in the face of massive evidence to the contrary were Western intellectuals inclined to apologize for regimes which did not merely "oppress" but murdered millions of their own people? Why did (and do) facts have so little impact on certain world-views? But that's the question about Satan, too, isn't it? Matt Prineas Alexandria, VA AntiUtopia@aol.com wrote: Well, it's nice to know Milton really understood the Irish, at least :) Course, I'd rather hang around an Irishman on a bad day than a true Englishman on any day... Jim PS I aprpeciate both of the Carol's geopolitical comments on this list. I wish I had a more detailed understanding of history in order to contribute a bit more intelligently. I will say, though, that American lives lost in Korea purchased for South Korea a level of freedom and prosperity that would have been unheard of otherwise. Just spend a week in Seoul, then spend a week anywhere in North Korea. . .especially now that it's largely been abandoned by Russia and China. Time to start seeing who the real oppressors are, and the real victims. . ..unilateral critique of U.S. policy and praise for its opponents isn't politcal saavy, it's just another form of naivete. In a message dated Wed, 28 Jun 2000 3:58:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Roy Flannagan writes: << I just wrote something that I am not really sure of, repeating some recent truisms about Milton's politics and beliefs in human rights: Milton's ideal government system, which can be over-simply represented as rule by an educated elite rather than by an inherited monarchy, is more appealing to modern taste than the image of a king or queen with life or death power over a cringing public, but Milton did not believe in universal franchise (he may or may not have believed that women should have legal rights or own property or vote­we don't know, for sure). He almost surely believed that some people were too ignorant to be given the vote, and he may have believed that some nations were too backward to govern themselves­the Irish, for instance. I appeal to the wisdom of the list to correct what I have written where it needs to be corrected. Would Milton have endorsed suffragettes, before their time? He willed his personal property to his wife, but ! li! mited his daughters' inheritance to uncollected debts from the Powell family. Does that mean that he wanted to empower his wife, or does it only indicate that he had no living son to leave his small estate to? Is it wishful thinking on our modern part, to want to believe that Milton wanted to believe in "one man, one vote," or in "one woman, one vote"? My inclusion of the Irish, whom Milton labeled "those murdrous Irish the enemies of God and mankind" (Yale 1.798), was deliberately provocative. The Irish were abhorred barbarians, wild Papists, pirates, according to Milton, when King Charles enlisted their support. I am open to being informed on any and all of these issues. Best, Roy Flannagan >> --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! From: Jacob Blevins [ngjbb@ttacs.ttu.edu] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 1:33 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Help with Dore's Milton To all: A dear friend of mine has recently had his collection of poems accepted for publication; he loves Milton and I wanted to try and find for him a first or second edition of Dore's illustrated Paradise Lost. I know the illustrations well, but I don't know what to look for in determining the edition. Could someone let me know who published the first edition, what year, editor, etc. and possibly, if you could, let me know what a reasonable price is to pay for one of the early editions. Thanks so much. Jacob From: Jameela Lares [jlares@ocean.otr.usm.edu] Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 7:10 AM To: milton-l@richmond.edu Subject: Re: Coordinating Milton Marathons Although a coordinated date sounds like a good idea, it may be impossible to find one universally acceptable. I try to have our marathon in later April, on a Saturday. Jameela Lares Associate Professor of English University of Southern Mississippi Hattiesburg, MS 39406-5037 +(601) 266-6214 ofc +(601) 266-5757 fax On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Lew Kaye-Skinner wrote: > I'm sure I'm not the only one on the list with a calendar, but I did > check the dates Andrew Fleck gave us for 2001. 24 Feb is a Saturday. > 13 Mar is a Tuesday. 26 Mar is a Monday. > > On 06/28/2000, at 4:07 PM, Derek Wood wrote: > > >Andrew Fleck wrote: > > > > > ....Perhaps next year we could pick an important spring date from > Milton's > > > life and then coordinate the many disparate marathons.... > > > >Milton took his B.A. on 26 March 1629. He married Elizabeth Minshull > on 24 > >February 1663. Appointed Secretary for Foreign Tongues 13 March 1649. > >Unfortunately, Areopagitica was published in November. The contract > with the > >printer for PL was signed on 27 April 1667. Not very exciting moments. > The > >first might interest students with graduation coming up. > > Best wishes, > > Derek Wood.. >